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Talk:Star Trek: The Motion Picture/archive
Date for TMP Dan, a brief question on the 2271/2273 issue - what should we list as the date when making entries based on references in the movie? I've just added USS Revere and USS Columbia, and used the 2273 date, but wasn't too sure. -- DarkHorizon 14:05, 20 Jan 2004 (PST) :On the 2273 date, if Kirk's last star-hour was logged anywhere between January to June of 2270, then the 'two and a half years' would place it in 2272. would this be a preferable 'middle ground' between the widely accepted Chronology date of 2271 and the more recent assumption of 2273? :The ironic thing is that if they had skipped making the Q2 2270 reference, the Encyclopedia's 2271 would've still been possible, but now it has been blown out of the water completely... -- Captain M.K.B. 01:04, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC) ::Yes, but both the official site and Star Trek Magazine consider 2271 to be the official date. --ApolloBoy 04:43, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC) :::The official date is 2271, so I used that in the Summary. Ottens 11:26, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) ::::Well, the simple fact of the matter is, Gene said the TAS is not canon. IF you don't count that, then perhaps 2271 does indeed, work. It could also be mentioned that the planing and such had already happend, what with times and such that are used one could speculate that planing and desinging happend during TOS season 3. In any case, I don't considar TAS Canon, hence the timline makes sense (I'm going by that I hear Gene said TAS is not canon so...) Terran Officer April 22, 2006, 12:38PM (EST) :::::You do of course realize that VOY: "Q2" established that the Kirk's first five-year mission ended in 2270, meaning the earlist possible year this movie could take place is 2272... --From Andoria with Love 00:53, 23 April 2006 (UTC) ::::::Since 2272 and 2273 are equally likely, how did we settle on 2272 ? I am not was not advocating a change, (since the film came out late in 1979, I like it occurring in late 2272), but I noticed that Memory Beta uses 2273. —MJBurrage • TALK • 01:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC) ::::::The on-screen evidence makes 2272 and 2273 exaclty equal in probability, couldn't we use the 2.8 years quoted in Roddenberry’s novelisation to settle the tie? He also has the lines about not logging a single star-hour in “two and a half years”. (Which could be anything from 4–8 months given how people approximate and/or round things) However, on page 6 he gives a specific length of time for Spock’s Kolinahr training as 2.8 Earth years. This makes the earliest possible date for TMP late-October 2272 (If the five-year mission ended in early-January 2270), with sometime in 2273 much more likely. —MJBurrage • TALK • 19:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC) ;Years redux...: ::::::I have noticed that the 2271/2272/2273 date issue still shows up in page edits. While there is no fully cannon date, the closest thing we had was the Star Trek Chronology (and StarTrek.com) date of 2271, which we now know to be imposable. 2273 is more likely than 2272 (see above), and is now used by Memory Beta, and is considered official by Pocket Books according to Voyages of Imagination. As I understand it, we currently use 2272 because it splits the difference between the most likely date, and the former official one. Given the publication of Voyages of Imagination, and the growing use of its date elsewhere, that we either remove having an exact date, or switch to 2273. —MJBurrage • TALK • 01:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC) :::::::To be honest, I'd be tempted to put it as "2270s" and call it a day. We know that it isn't 2271. We don't know if it's 2272, 2273, or heck, it could even be 2275 for all we know. Thus, I'd be tempted to say "2270s" and leave it at that. -- Sulfur 01:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC) ;2273 not upper limit: ::::::::I just want to say that I prefer the later dates for the movie timeframe than the earlier ones. This would account better for the aging of the actors and space the first and second movies slightly more evenly. In fact while I have to concede 2272 as the earliest date ST:I could take place, there is nothing that I know of that could set the upper limit lower than 2277 when Spock is promoted to Captain, something we know happens after this film. Federation 06:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC) :::::: Where does a 2277 date for Spock's promotion to captain come from? —MJBurrage • TALK • 01:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC) :::::::::At least according to the canon of this site 2270 is the accepted date of the end of Kirk's 5 year mission. But we are not told if he commanded the Enterprise for 6 months, a year or even 3 years after the end of the Five Year mission. Basically all we know is that 2273 is the minimum date the movie could have happened. it could have happened up to a year before STII. That comes from comparing the Stardate of the Genesis tape, which was recorded about a year ago, and the stardate of TMP. Be it a bit more dubious and unreliable, the data at least tells us somewhere between 2 1/2 years after the first movie, and 1 year before the second. -- 01:58, 2 May 2007 (UTC) :::::::::: You can't count on stardates as definitive date place markers. Look how inconsistent they were throughout the original series and the animated series. --Alan 02:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC) Number of images I hope I haven't uploaded too many images for this page... Ottens 11:26, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) :I was just going to ask that. 15 images seems a little too much - I'd suggest to narrow that down to perhaps 5 or 6 (max), and to use some images that can be reused on other pages (for example Ilia, Decker, V'Ger, Refit Enterprise, San Francisco, Spacedock etc.). -- Cid Highwind 11:30, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) I'll see what I can do. Ottens 11:31, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) :- I've used three of the V'Ger images on the V'Ger page. I removed two of the images that were previously there (because the images I added were of higher-quality) and nominated them for deletion. :- :Image:TMP 6.jpg is also used on the Constitution class page. :- :Image:TMP 5.jpg is now also used on the Ilia page, and is also used on the Constitution class page. :- Nominated Image:TMP 12.jpg for deletion. :- :Image:TMP 2.jpg also used on Constitution class. :- :Image:TMP 11.jpg also used on Constitution class. :- So that leaves the following images for the TMP page only: :Image:TMP 1.jpg, :Image:TMP 3.jpg, :Image:TMP 8.jpg, :Image:TMP 7.jpg. Ottens 12:13, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) :: Holy cow, Ottens! I think that you've got way too many images on this article! Our image use policy says that generally a maximum of only three images per page is the acceptable limit. I know we've been exceeding that elsewhere, but I think that this is an example where the images need to be trimmed WAY down! -- Dan Carlson 14:41, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) :I didn't know about that rule, sorry. As I posted above already, most images are used on other pages also, so for most there's no reason for deletion. And if we have them anyway, why not post them here also? Ottens 14:43, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) :: Interesting point. You're probably right; if the image is already used elsewhere, then there's no harm in having it used in a second article -- heck, that helps justify the image by using it more often! Okay, you've convinced me... but I'd still hope that you can avoid going overboard, because since Memory Alpha is only on a shared hosting account, we still have limited disk space! (Actually, it's one gig worth, which is plenty, but I'd rather not splurge it on costly images when we can have lots of articles instead. You know what I mean?) -- Dan Carlson 15:08, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) ::Yes, I understand (heck, I have a website myself :P). Though one or two images could still be removed. Well, let's continue that here... Ottens 15:55, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) :::(Re: Dan) If the only problem is disk space, then yes, using an image that is already used elsewhere should be fine - if we are (also) talking about bandwidth issues and/or a general guideline (write about something instead of just uploading pretty pictures), this might not be a solution... -- Cid Highwind 18:47, 1 Jul 2004 (CEST) ::::I don't know how Memory Alpha is on bandwith, but concerning general guidelines: If, for example Image:TMP 6.jpg is used on the Constitution class anyway, why not include it on the TMP page? Ottens 13:28, 2 Jul 2004 (CEST) :::Regarding guidelines: this is an encyclopedia - in my opinion, images should be used to illustrate specific important points that can't be described otherwise; they should not be included just to have some image on the page. Here, the included images look more like a picture story due to quality and quantity. I'd rather have an image of Enterprise in drydock than one of Kirk seeing his ship in drydock, for example... -- Cid Highwind 13:46, 2 Jul 2004 (CEST) :::You are right, MA is an encyclopedia, not an image gallery. But as I said already, as these images are used on Memory Alpha elsewhere anyway, and as they are related to TMP, why not post them on that page also...? Let's discuss the images image by image to see if they're useful. * "Kirk sees the Enterprise again". I think that specific image was quite important, as it was quite an important moment for Kirk when he saw "his" Enterprise again. * "Dr. McCoy arrives." I used this image on the Constitution class page to illustrate the Transporter Room, but on the TMP page, it serves little use indeed. But it's not like the image is for the TMP page specifically. We have the image anyway... * "The officers on the bridge." Shows the main officers and the refitted Enterprise bridge. * "The Enterprise enters the cloud." Think that image is quite important. Shows both the V'Ger cloud, and the Enterprise. * "The Ilia probe in Sickbay." I used this image to illustrate the Constitution class Sickbay, and it shows Lt. Ilia/Ilia-probe. * "Spocks enters the cloud." Shows Mr. Spock in a spacesuit, illustrates a part of the story, and shows V'Ger cloud interior. * "V'Ger". Used on the V'Ger page also, shows the centre of V'Ger. * "The walk to V'Ger." One of the most important scenes of the movie. * "Decker and Ilia merging." Used on the V'Ger page also, shows the climax of the film. * "Merging with the Creator." Shows the centre of V'Ger, and used on the V'Ger page also. If you'd much rather like to see an image showing the Enterprise in spacedock, why don't you copy that image from the Constitution class page then, and paste it on the Star Trek: The Motion Picture page? If you think it's relevant, use the image (we have the image anyway), and post it on the TMP page... Ottens 13:55, 2 Jul 2004 (CEST) :Because I'' think that there are much too many images on this page already and don't want to make it even worse by adding yet another one. I also still think that images should ''not be included just because they are available anyway - if an image is useful on more than one page, that's great, but we shouldn't include all images from TMP here just because they exist. After all, this encyclopedia is "hyperlinked" for a reason: if someone is interested in seeing something that isn't really important on this page (such as the appearance of McCoy/the transporter room in 2271) he/she can always follow a link to another page. -- Cid Highwind 14:16, 2 Jul 2004 (CEST) :Hmm... Yes, you convinced me. "Just because the image is available" isnt necessarily an excuse to add the image to the past. Still, I think most images used are useful, though I agree that two or three could be removed... Ottens 16:32, 2 Jul 2004 (CEST) Image sidebar I've temporarily moved the image sidebar here, since with the removal of the copyvio summary, it makes the page layout wonky. Once a unique summary goes up, it should be put back -- Michael Warren 19:11, 27 Jul 2004 (CEST) I only found out recently that 2270 was made the canon end of the original series mission. I'm glad this is the case because the evidence (for want of a better word) suggested this all along, and the reasoning behind the 2269 date was weak (though I don't hold Mike Okuda to blame for this.) I also believe ST: TMP took place in 2273. For the 2270 and 2273 dates I refer anyone interested to the novelization of the movie. Roddenberry offers a loosely based timeline of sorts built around Dr. Chapel's appearance on the ship and Kirk's proximity to Earth. What I took from the passage was that Kirk took command of the Enterprise in 2264, the five-year mission began in 2265 and ended in 2270, and the V'GER incident took place in 2273. /temp page content this summary was part of a temp page associated with this article: ---- A large, unknown "cloud" headed for Earth is believed to be violent when it destroys a group of Klingon cruisers. Admiral Kirk reunites with his old crew, and assumes command of the Enterprise, creating tension between him and Commander Will Decker, who previously commanded the Enterprise. En-route to the entity, Spock leaves his logic training on Vulcan to join the Enterprise. His skills prove invaluable in saving the Enterprise from destruction by the cloud. As they approach the core of the cloud, they find a massive structure of unknown and very advanced technology. Upon reaching the center of the structure, Lieutenant Ilia is killed, and replaced by a mechanical copy of Ilia, whose purpose is to investigate why "carbon units" have "infested" the Enterprise. The crew learns from the "Ilia-probe" that entity's name is V'Ger. In order to gain more information about V'Ger, Spock, unknown to anyone else, attempts to mind-meld with V'Ger. Spock learns that V'Ger is sentient, but is searching for his creator. ---- is anyone still working on this, and is it non-copyvio? it's image heavy, so i'd recommend severe revision before its included in the article again Background Information I believe that the information about The Defector and other Star Trek: Phase II inspired movies and episodes belongs in the Star Trek: Phase II article and are not relevant to this article. Please post her before reverting to a previous version. 09:42, 3 Jan 2005 (CET) Nitpicks I removed: : Mistakes: very notable mistake in ST:TMP is that when Kirk orders "full inpulse" the ship actually goes at faster-than-light speeds, going from earth to saturn in less than a minute, however, light waves take about 3 hours to travel that distance. It was previously agreed that this type of information is not to be included in the background information of summaries. --Alan del Beccio 01:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Background Information (2) "Grace Lee Whitney (Janice Rand) and Mark Lenard (Klingon captain) are the only actors, besides the original cast, to appear in both this film and the final Star Trek: The Original Series film, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country." What about "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock"? GLW appears as "woman in cafeteria", ML as "Sarek"... 16:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC) :This note doesn't contradict that. It does not say that GLW does not appear in any other films (she also appeared in Star Fleet HQ in ST IV, I believe), and Mark Leonard does not appear in TMP, therefore they are not covered by this note, but they are not contradicted by it either. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC) :Mark Lenard does indeed appear in TMP, he's the Klingon captain. --leandar 18:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Yes. He's the only actor to portray each of Trek's main aliens - Klingon, Vulcan and Romulan. - Adambomb1701 16:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC) background info it states here that saucer separation was mentioned in "The Apple" -- is this really the case? -- Captain M.K.B. 17:04, 12 February 2007 (UTC) :Yes. Federation 02:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC) ::In that episode Kirk told Scotty to discard the warp nacelles if he had to and to crack out with the main section but he wanted that ship out of there. The main section that Kirk is referring to is the saucer section. Gene Roddenberry always had it in mind that the Enterprise could separate, but that was never seen. Probably would have been too expensive and I seriously doubt the model was designed to ever actually separate. --leandar 17:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Summary needs help I'm on it! :) --leandar 17:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC) :Thought I'd submit a partial summary so I didn't accidentally try to delete much of the page by mistake like I almost accidentally did with the Generations page. --leandar 01:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC) ::It's done. Whew! --leandar 02:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC) Kirk's rank I'm in the process of editing the summary and I'm curious to know just how it was arrived at that Kirk was a rear admiral. He was never said as anything else but as an admiral. Is there any information out there that can shed some light on this before I continue? Thanks. --leandar 18:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC) :His uniform had rear admiral insignia. Federation 01:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC) :But how do we know it's rear admiral insignia? Is there some reference to which this is made available that I'm unaware of? --leandar 01:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC) Decks... In the movie you can clearly see that they climb/fly to deck 70 something... It should be mentioned in the article, since the ship only has 24 or so... :They do? When? Federation 21:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC) I think he's actually talking about Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. - Adambomb1701 19:41, 20 August 2007 (UTC) Video & DVD releases This is one of the most confusing cases ever for video and DVD, since there are three different "official" versions floating around -- plus letterboxed vs. pan-and-scan. Some clarification would help. (Several of the TOS movies are a bit confusing in this regard actually, not least because all have letterboxed and non-letterboxed releases.) Is it correct that *all* the video releases prior to the Director's Cut DVD were the "Special Longer Version"? Was the theatrical version ever released to retail sale in any form? As for the VHS releases, has anyone straightened out which ones were letterboxed and which ones were pan-and-scan?.... - The theatrical version was released on videocassette in October, 1980. The "Special Longer Edition" is the same version that was aired on ABC-TV in February 1983. It was released on home video in March, 1983, superseding the theatrical version. The "Director's Cut" was released on VHS in letterbox at the same time the DVD was released. All other VHS (and Beta) versions, as far as I know, were pan-and-scan. The theatrical version is not available any more on tape or disc, but sometimes turns up on one of the HBO channels. - Adambomb1701 19:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC)